Lace Up with LaceClips: Sport-specific fitness tracking

(Sorry for the audio - this is the last episode without a real mic! Thanks for being here so early on my journey ❤️)

✍️ Show Notes

This week I'm chatting with Jonathan, who is reimagining fitness tracking specifically for sports in order to measure things like steps, jumps, and pivots. The origin story is a fun one - sometimes building hardware just happens serendipitously!

Check them out at laceclips.com

🔑 Bytes:

• Go after the underserved. For example: Fitness tracking for youth sports.
• Think about who the purchasing decision maker is for your product. In this case: parents & coaches.
• Build a community to empower users to compare their data with friends, creating a sense of competition and motivation.

📖 Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background

01:05 Meeting and Partnership

03:23 Hardware Development and Decision-making

04:35 Iterative Development and Planning

06:16 Target Market and Customer Profile

08:28 Addressing Style and Fashion

10:20 Hardware Components and Communication

12:23 Discussion on Zephyr RTOS

14:22 Tap Detection and Sensor Optimization

16:54 Future Plans and Gen 2 Development

25:09 Architecture and Communication

26:48 Gen 1 and Gen 2 Plans

29:20 Battery Life Optimization

32:12 Business Goals for the New Year

33:30 Partnerships with Watch Brands

34:00 Conclusion and Thank You

💬 Full Transcript

Vigs (00:01.332) All right, we're live. We've got Jonathan here from Lace Clips. Jonathan, I found the product through an Instagram ad, DM'd you, and a few days later, here we are. So thanks for jumping on, I appreciate it. jonathan nussbaum (00:12.986) Good to be here. Thanks. Vigs (00:15.422) So tell us a little bit about what the product is, what is Lace Clips, what is the function that it serves in the market, and who is your target audience? jonathan nussbaum (00:25.018) So Lace Clips is a wearable technology device. First and foremost, it was a product that we designed to solve a solution for a lot of parents or athletes where their shoes coming untied. So it solves that certainly for a bunch of people that want to use it as that function. I'm sure, I mean, I have a seven year old, so I can't tell you how many times in a game, no matter what he's playing, that there's a kid shoes come untied and they come over to the coach or they come to the parent and the game stops. So this solves a solution for that. But it's really, it's a wearable device that goes on your shoes, targeting youth sports and or adults that play racket sports or sports that they don't want to wear something on their wrist or something on their hands. In, especially in the youth sports market, you're not legally, when you play organized sports, allowed to wear anything on your wrist. So the idea that a 13 year old kid, Vigs (00:54.352) Thank you. Vigs (01:02.024) Okay. jonathan nussbaum (01:22.33) has a wearable tech product they can wear like an Apple watch. Well, you can't wear that when you play basketball or baseball or football or anything else. And any of those other devices you can't wear either. And none of the other products that are on the market have really been catered to what kids want to see or what they want to do with technology like this when they're playing sports. So, I mean, that's who I think is really... Vigs (01:28.98) Okay. jonathan nussbaum (01:51.162) an opportunity because there is just nothing really being used on any mass scale. But I think it solves a handful of those problems for parents and also gives kids something that they've been probably looking, seeing their parents use and seeing older friends use. But there's been nothing that's really been catered towards them. Vigs (02:02.856) Yeah, I like how, you know, it was born with a relatively simpler idea as far as let's just keep these laces like tied to the game, right? And then at what point did you and your team, like, did you guys decide, Okay, let's add some smarts to this. I start tracking some metrics that's gonna be really useful and give that like fitness watch experience. jonathan nussbaum (02:34.65) Yeah, I mean, I think it was around 2012, 13, we launched the original product. It was just a lace lock, just a simple lace lock, but it had the customization aspect of it as well. So I had licenses with the NBA and with Major League Baseball, and we sold it to a few mass retailers. I think it was in like Kmart and it was in Dix for a period of time. And you just couldn't make any money. You know, it was just a product that was a cheap retail. And it was very difficult to make money. So I came up, I manufacture in Asia and have been for over 20 something years. So on one of my trips, I came up with the idea of saying, okay, how can I repackage what these other devices are doing? I think at the time there was just Fitbit. I don't know that Apple Watch was even around back then. But there were a few of these devices that would go on your wrists. I said, well, How can I make something that would incorporate this lace locking mechanism and go after the consumer market and primarily youth with something that they would find to be cool? Vigs (03:46.452) Yeah, I like that. I'm kind of using your background in manufacturing to make that pivot and, you know, use that as inspiration. Now I think that some of your ads, I'm seeing that you're tracking like sports specific movements, like for different sports. I think I saw racket sports, I saw basketball. So tell us a little bit about that. Like where, where are you now as far as like all these advanced software configurations? jonathan nussbaum (04:12.794) I mean, it works for basically any sport. The only sport that's a little challenging is soccer just because of where it's located on the shoe. But when you go to girls volleyball events, I mean, you have all these young ladies playing volleyball and they're not using anything or football games or basketball games. So it really works for anything that involves your feet that you're wearing sneakers with. because it's tracking the actual movement on your foot. You know, a lot of these other devices, regardless of what they are, a Fitbit and Apple Watch and Oura Ring, Garmin, they don't really have the true capability of actually being on your foot. They're somewhere else that they're measuring other ways of how to get that data, but we're able to get different data with our product like Pivots, which is essentially a change of direction. or jumps at different heights. Obviously we can get steps and distance and calories and things of that nature. And we also get RPM of your legs, which is essentially a cadence. Important if you're doing high, high velocity training. But ultimately what makes us very different than everybody else is the software, the ability to not only see my data because. Look, I played division one athletics. I have a son that's seven that plays all different sorts of sports. So I know what it is to grow up and play sports and play sports in school and play at a high level at a university. We didn't have anything like that, but I put myself in like my son's shoes or a 12 year old kid shoes, you know, playing tennis or playing other sports. If you told me that I did four miles today, I probably wouldn't care. But. If you told me I did four miles and I did more than everybody else on my team or everybody else in my training group, and I worked the hardest and I did the best and I'm going to really like that. And that's what I care about. And our app allows us to compare to our friends, to see where we stand on a leaderboard compared to our group or to other people around the country that are using the product. And you can compare it by sport or by different data set. So things like that make it very different than. Vigs (06:13.804) Thank you. Vigs (06:31.668) Okay. jonathan nussbaum (06:35.834) these other products because yeah, they may have some of that stuff in there, which I'm not really aware that they do to that level, but kids are not going to care about their data. They more want to be able to see where they're matching up to the pros or their coach or other people. That's more interesting to them. That natural competition is more important to them than, Oh, I did three miles today. They just don't care. Vigs (06:46.644) Yeah, agreed. And I think that's one of the things like, like I also grew up playing a bunch of sports. And as a kid, like that competitiveness, you know, I try to hold on to that in all aspects of my life, but sports is like competition in its truest form. And, you know, there's this one like saying, like someone said, you know, I wish in the Olympics they would have like one regular person next to all the athletes, just so we realize how much better those athletes are. And I kind of can see that here where, you know, if there's a pro tennis player that as a kid I'm looking up to, maybe I do want to compare my stats to that pro tennis player and see like, you know, is this something that I can get to like as an inspiration or something. jonathan nussbaum (07:38.266) I mean, it's definitely a way to see where you're standing and see what you need to work on. And it also could be used like from a coach's standpoint too, or a trainer, you know, coach is able to monitor what their team is doing and who's training and maybe it's in the off season and he's giving them workouts to where then he can say, okay, everybody's doing this workout and he's able to log in as the administrator of that group and he's able to see what all of them are doing. And no, well, how come Bobby didn't train today? Well, you know, he didn't get around to it. Whatever it is, it allows them to hold them accountable. And the same breath when they're using it, it allows them to use it as motivation because now, you know, if you realize your best player maybe isn't performing from a data standpoint as much as your 12th player, well, he needs to push it. And you're going to have the data there to back it up and then to tell the kids, because generally when they're on those teams, they're competitive. It tells them, hey, you need to improve here. This guy's out working you. This person's doing this. Why aren't you? Or look at the number one player in the state, no matter what sport it is or in the country. Look at his data or look at her data. You want to be like them? You got to do more. So there's so many ways to kind of motivate it outside of just the raw data, which is generally what you get on all these other devices. You're just getting the data. Vigs (09:03.604) Yeah. And I think there's like, I have a personal story too. I went to, I played D3 college basketball. And we had, we were at a tech school and one of the team, like data science teams, they reviewed our footage for an entire season and like came up with all these custom metrics for every player. I didn't, I was more of a role player on the team, you know, leadership, whatever you want to call it, but I didn't score a lot of points is what I'm trying to say. But they like. figured out with all these stats that I was the most impactful player while I was on the court, even though I wasn't the one making all those points. And that just like shifted things. It's like people, like it happened already. It was in the past, but just that data analysis brought to light something that then had that prolonged impact. jonathan nussbaum (09:45.722) Yeah, I mean, my mind goes back all the time, training and playing and doing this and how cool it would be. I mean, how many times did I watch, regardless of the sport, I mean, I play tennis, so I watch a lot of tennis and it comes up on TV, especially like at a Grand Slam, US Open or Rumble, and oh, Novak Djokovic did the equivalent of, you know, six miles this week and played 11 hours. And it's like, well, they only have that data for that. Vigs (10:10.54) Mm -hmm. jonathan nussbaum (10:15.034) type of athlete. How about just for the kid, the 14 year old that's playing tournaments or the 50 year old club tennis player that wants that or the guy playing rec basketball. So that information is interesting because in most cases, you know, even if you're playing rec ball like now, like, so you go out and you're going to play pickup with a bunch of friends. If you came out and play ball with me and you got on an Apple watch, I would say, yo, you got to take that off. Vigs (10:28.916) Yeah. Vigs (10:45.012) Yeah. jonathan nussbaum (10:45.402) Right? You can't play in it. So you're going to come in. So that's one of the things is that there are not a lot of options that are easy for the consumer. Yes. Are there products that go around the chest or go around the waist? And yeah, they are. But I mean, they're not being sold in huge mass quantities to the general consumer and their price prohibitive. And they tend to be a little bit more complicated to use. Vigs (10:59.442) Mm -hmm. Vigs (11:04.32) Yeah. Vigs (11:15.028) Yeah, I agree. I definitely see the value here for these like specific sort of sports, racket sports, basketball, contact sports, where you just don't have the luxury of being able to wear something on your wrist. So diving into some of the manufacturing, you know, as you were building out this product, getting market validation, talk a little bit about how you ramped up like the quantities, you know, since that's your background in manufacturing, how did you go about actually producing these, mass producing these, getting these shipped, things like that. jonathan nussbaum (11:46.65) I mean, that's just what we do. I mean, so it's not. I mean, you know, it's not that hard. I mean, for me, I mean, I, you know, I've been doing it for 20 something years. So, I mean, you have to design the instruction manual and come up with the packaging. And then it's just, you know, finding the right factory partner to work with, the right group to watch it from a quality assurance standpoint and testing and then putting it on the boat and shipping it. In some cases, I mean, I have a plant here in the U S so I don't have to put it on a boat. It just ships to my warehouse. Um, but, um, no, I mean, look, it takes, it takes multiple iterations of prototypes and boards to test, to make sure that the, uh, the mechanicals of it are, are operating properly with the app before you would actually go to any type of mass production. Vigs (12:45.652) Mm -hmm. Yeah, and I think that's something that a lot of people face because those factories, they usually have MOQs and they're not going to just take a small order. So how did you know, how did you get to the point where you were like, I believe in this product, the market believes in it, let's invest a bunch of money to get these made. Kind of what was that top process? jonathan nussbaum (13:04.346) I mean, I think I was conservative in what we built. I mean, we didn't build a hundred thousand units, but you know, we built a good amount of units that I think was fine for initial runs of what would be reasonable that wouldn't, you know, put me in any type of financial compromising position. So, no, I mean, you know, when you're dealing with direct to consumer as composed, as opposed to mass retail where you have the orders in hand. very different. So you know, want to make sure you have enough that within reason, but not too much because it's okay to sell out. That's always a good thing. In most cases, without hopefully losing the momentum of what that can do for you. Vigs (13:50.196) Yeah, did you do like test runs, beta trials, things like that? jonathan nussbaum (13:54.394) From a production standpoint? Yeah. Oh yeah, I mean, yes, I had different runs at different times. So I would do a run of 100 pieces. We would test those. Those would be given out. Then we would do a run of another 100. Then maybe it would be a 500 to a thousand. And then it would go off for a slightly larger run after that. Vigs (13:56.628) Yeah, like with your customers. Vigs (14:20.692) Pretty standard, I would say, right? In manufacturing. What about with getting customer feedback? So, first couple of batches, I'm sure you wanted to collect some feedback on how are people using this? What would benefit them? Or did you kind of do that before we started production? Or was it kind of an ongoing process of iterative feedback? jonathan nussbaum (14:23.258) Yeah. jonathan nussbaum (14:41.146) I mean, I think it's always an ongoing process to get feedback from customers, especially when your audience is so young and or parents, because we obviously have a lot of parents that are using it, you know, on their on their phone or on their tablet for their for their child. Because like my son doesn't have a phone and he plays sports with a whole bunch of other seven and eight year old kids and they don't have phones either. So the parents are the ones actually operating devices. So, yeah, we get feedback all the time. Vigs (14:58.578) Hmm. jonathan nussbaum (15:11.13) Um, most of the time it's not so much to do with the product itself. It's usually, uh, you know, app related, um, navigation through the app or suggestions of how to make it easier. Um, like the simple, simple things, um, nothing that is, um, alarming to where you're like, okay, this doesn't work. Um, you know, obviously we, we all deal with limitations of certain technologies. I mean, I'm sure you, as everybody else has had issues with Bluetooth, you know, one minute you've got your ear pods in and then you open it up and all of a sudden it's not connecting and you get started hitting buttons and it's like, what's going on? I was just on the phone three seconds ago. So right now it, it starts and stops via Bluetooth. So you're as good as that technology is. Vigs (15:47.732) Okay. Vigs (15:56.884) Mm -hmm. jonathan nussbaum (16:04.974) I am making some adjustments here in the near future to have an alternative start and stop on the product. And that's from hearing feedback from a lot of people because of what I would call some clunkiness of Bluetooth. Vigs (16:25.876) Yeah, and I think that's something that you're always like, when you're making a product like this, you're always going to be kind of capped by the technology that you're using. And like we get, you know, we, I work for a design service firm, we build products that connect with Bluetooth and stuff. And when we get customer feedback of like, Hey, something's not working. Or like we found this bug with like this specific version of iOS. It's like, we know we can try to help you, but people that like people that are making AirPods are facing the same issues. And so it's not really like. jonathan nussbaum (16:53.018) Yes. Vigs (16:54.772) product specific issues, more of a holistic tech issue at that point. And then when it comes to the app itself, you know, you talked about having the leaderboard and things like that. What was the thought process behind building that entire ecosystem out? Like, cause at the beginning, I'm sure it was just add some sensors to this product. And then what was the idea behind building that community? jonathan nussbaum (17:17.402) Well, we're, mean, we're nowhere near done building the app to where we, where it's ultimately going to be. Um, it's always evolving. It's an always constant changing process. And there's a lot of different features and things that we want to add to it that are in the, in the plan to add. Um, but yes, you're right in the, in the beginning, it's, it's, you're just adding features, right? You're, you're just, you're adding this, you're, you're here. Is it just measuring the data? Then you're adding in the friends, then you're okay. The friends didn't, didn't look right. We changed the look of this. We changed different icons. So, I mean, it's, it's a constant evolving thing because, you know, I think that whenever you're doing stuff like this or in the early stages, you always want to hear things and you can't be, um, opposed to getting feedback and making changes that are for the right thing. Vigs (17:54.644) Mm -hmm. jonathan nussbaum (18:16.506) of the product, you know, because sometimes what I've seen, and I've had people come to me for many, many years, you know, oh, I have this, I have that, this is a great idea, can you make it for me? Can you sell it for me? And usually, most of them, 98 % are horrible ideas, or they've already been invented before. But what you can't do is fall in love with your product so much that you're not open to change when certain things are being pointed out to you to be the obvious, obvious problems, right? Vigs (18:45.748) Mm -hmm. jonathan nussbaum (18:46.33) So. Sometimes it complicates things from a testing standpoint or manufacturing standpoint to make those changes because when you make changes they cost money and there's consequences with that. But ultimately you're always trying to evolve and make the product better. Vigs (19:06.708) Yeah. And you know, you talked about evolving the app. What about from a hardware standpoint? Do you have plans for that? What is the roadmap for like the race clips themselves look like? jonathan nussbaum (19:16.538) Well, yes, we already have a new design for a different housing that's a little sleeker, that's going to incorporate a slightly different connection method from a manufacturing standpoint because it's two pieces coming together. It'll be sleeker as well. And then there'll be a new hardware set inside, not necessarily changing too much, but it's getting us approval globally. with our, uh, like, you know, like the, what would be equivalent to like the FCC in the United States. So it's with all approved components that work with the Asian market and the European market. They're already globally approved as having to go with what we have now and individually approve it for different markets. The hardware inside's approved and it's going to lead us to a far more advanced high performance version of the product. That's going to measure, um, Vigs (19:57.236) Mm -hmm. Vigs (20:02.868) getting a sir. jonathan nussbaum (20:14.01) all sorts of specific high level data with the goal of getting biomechanical information for injury preventiveness. So, right now when you get our product, you get a pair of two, but only one of them has the mechanical in it. The other one is just a lace lock that's hollow. This will have mechanical in both. It'll measure both of your feet. It'll be giving all sorts of specific data like foot strike duration and foot strike angle. And like I said, I think the most compelling thing is, Vigs (20:21.908) Okay. jonathan nussbaum (20:42.746) having a device that's $200 or less that's telling you, hey, your foot's hitting the ground at such and such an angle and you're gonna have knee pain or you're gonna have ankle pain. Because right now, in order to get that type of information, you're having to go into some sort of lab that's got some, you know, 40, 50, $60 ,000 device or more that's taking hours to hook up to you. Yes, I'm sure the data is far more specific and more exact, but... Vigs (21:00.34) Mm -hmm. jonathan nussbaum (21:11.834) You can't go do that and say, you know what, I'm going to go measure myself every day for the next two months and see what I'm doing mechanically and correctly. That's causing my back to hurt or causing my hip to hurt or whatever it is. And over time, especially with AI, because there's an AI chip that's in there, you know, it's going to learn and it's going to help teach that for the masses. So now I can see, you know, helping, ideally helping, you know, a lot of kids that overtrain. Vigs (21:17.428) Exactly. jonathan nussbaum (21:41.242) or training in the wrong way, you know, the goal, and I'm not saying that we're going to be able to a hundred percent accomplish this because we don't know until we go out and learn, is to help prevent injuries and help prevent chronic injuries that happen in a lot of sports or to a lot of athletes. Vigs (21:41.908) Mm -hmm. Vigs (21:58.452) Yeah, and that's gonna allow your athletes to be able to play this for the high level for much longer. I think that's one of the, like, you know, we talked about feedback from customers in terms of the product, but feedback for an athlete is, you know, how am I doing? What can I do better? Why? Like, there's all these questions, right? And like $200 is such a low price point for something that would require, you know, high speed cameras, a bunch of expert analysis, like video analysis, things like that. So I think that's super exciting. And I love the long -term version of even going into injury prevention. Cause I think ultimately like, you know, a lot of us, many of us end up playing sports, you know, at a high school level, college level, but very few make it professionally, but we love the sport. And like, even now as an adult, I want to play recreationally. I play multiple times a week and I want to be able to do that for as long as possible. And I think that feedback is going to be super important from an injury prevention standpoint. jonathan nussbaum (22:53.978) Agreed. Vigs (22:55.902) What are your thoughts on, you know, like we've got a bunch of listeners from different backgrounds, you know, tech, products, athletics. What's something that you would say is something you're struggling with, something that, you know, you could use some help on, something you're trying to figure out. jonathan nussbaum (23:15.098) Um... Well, I mean, look, I think the biggest struggle is having enough money to develop all the things that I want to develop and have and be, you know, my company is self -financed. So I've never raised any money. You know, I've never been in the business of knowing how to raise money. So that's a very challenging thing for me is to be able to have enough money to scale it properly with everything that I've contributed so far. But I don't think there's anything at this point. from a technology standpoint that I'm struggling with. I mean, we have a lot of good, we have a great team of engineers in California that I've experienced in the wearable tech market. My app guy is great as well. So, I mean, I have a great team of people. It's just having the capacity to develop all these things and knowing that there's a, you know, with technology changing all the time, you know, there's a time date certain where at some point, some of this technology becomes obsolete because something new is out. So how long is that? You know, do you really have? I think there's a pretty good timetable here because there really hasn't been a ton developed, um, off of used sports. And also, you know, one big thing about this product too, is that it has the ability to merchandise on it, which is very different than any other product because. With this product, you have the ability to have these interchangeable caps, kind of like gibbets did with Crocs, where you can snap on and snap off logos, colors, designs, which essentially plays into the whole customization market. And in basketball, as we know, which drives the entire sneaker market globally, our basketball sneakers, you know, it's all about what's what sneakers you got on today and what color is this and why I want the new colorways here, whatever it is. jonathan nussbaum (25:11.994) So now you can have something on your shoe that's cool, as opposed to these other devices which are either hidden or you can't customize. Vigs (25:25.396) Yeah, you can definitely, I think, show your personality on it, show your colors, your team representation, things like that. And one thing that you said earlier really stuck out to me, which was, you can go to coaches and teams and athletic programs directly. And all of a sudden you've got 20, 50 people who are using your products versus having to go individually to every single athlete or every single person. Which I think is like a very scalable business model. Cool, last thing I'd just like to ask everyone here. For others who are thinking about building their own hardware, starting their own hardware company, what would be some free advice that you would give or what would you do differently if you had to start over? jonathan nussbaum (26:05.914) Man, well, this has been a very challenging and expensive process for me. Somebody that is in manufacturing and knows how to make things and knows how to sell things, the technology world of developing an app and developing hardware was very foreign to me. So it was a learning process. Uh, initially I picked the wrong company. Not only did that cost me a lot of money, but it cost me a long time. Um, unfortunately, when you don't know where to go, you don't know where to go. And, and that's, uh, you know, one of the things that you have to really be careful with. Um, and I would say to anybody that's making anything is that if you can't touch it and you can't speak to them, it's very hard to do business with. people that are outside of the country. In my case, it was people that were here. But... It was a very challenging process. I, again, I get people to come to me all the time about making stuff and they're like, Oh, I found this factory on Alibaba and this, that, and the other. And it's like, well, if you don't have somebody there that you're working with directly, you never know what you're going to get. Um, the hardware stuff again, I, it's been a learning process for me for the last, you know, eight, nine, 10 years. So I certainly know a lot more than I did when I started, but I'm not a technical person. I don't have any engineering background or anything like that. I am a user. So I try to like use my product as somebody that is, I put myself in the shoes of just somebody average. That's not an athlete that doesn't really know much about anything. I pick up this product. Can I use it? Can I use it without directions? And what's my experience? Um, I'm sure. jonathan nussbaum (28:10.97) you with a technical background or my engineer, for example, they look at things entirely different when they pick up this product and use it. Their heads turning in different ways. My head is turning in what's going to be my experience, who's my consumer and how can I make this fun and cool for them. And if I can get that response from our consumer where they see it and they use it and they're like, wow, this is easy. Right? Because that's another big problem that I see with a lot of these devices. It's like, okay, I get something and if I can't figure it out right away, it ends up in my drawer really fast. So it's easy. It's giving me feedback that I want and it's engaging with me and making it fun because ultimately like that is not fun. It's what you can do with that data to give that consumer an experience that can make it fun. Vigs (28:54.772) you Vigs (29:07.824) Thank you. jonathan nussbaum (29:08.218) Right? But, you know, saying nobody can say, well, it's fun. I ran four miles today and did 300 calories. Like, yes, I accomplished my goal, but I'm not the data is not it's leading me to on a road somewhere. Oh. Vigs (29:24.052) Exactly. Exactly. And I think what you've got, you know, is, it's a great balance of you've got the hardware piece, which is collecting that raw data. But like you said, that doesn't really push the needle that much. That's just raw data. But then you've got the software piece too, that you're building out. You've got the AI chip and that's where like the real value is going to come in, you know, post -processing, whatever you want to call it. But that data is going to get converted into something that's actually mean something like, Hey, I jumped higher than my friend today. I ran more than this person. jonathan nussbaum (29:48.314) Well, and that's only the sports one. You know, the product that I hope to have by the end of the year, if not the beginning of 25, is GPS. And it would be GPS, yes, we would add it to the sports version so that it could be, you can get additional data when you're playing sports. But just as a parent and put this kid on, put this on my kid's shoes, keeps their laces tied, and I know that they're safe. Vigs (29:58.868) Cool. jonathan nussbaum (30:13.946) And I know where they are or a senior citizen or somebody, you know, I mean, there, there's different ways to use it, but you know, from a parent standpoint, kids don't wear watches. They don't like wearing watches. Um, they can't wear it in school. We can't wear an Apple watch in school, but I can have this on my shoe and it could be a design. It could be Marvel. It could be princesses. It could be whatever. And your little girl, your little boy is like, Ooh, I'm going to put on Spiderman today. And the parents like, okay, great. Vigs (30:17.684) Mm -hmm. Vigs (30:24.564) Okay. jonathan nussbaum (30:42.778) but now I know where you are and I can go on my phone and I know where you are within 10 or 15 feet instantly. And I know you're safe. I know you're at school. I know you're at daycare. I know you're at wherever you are. And it gives that level of security to the parent. And that to me is ultimately going to be the biggest product. The sports stuff's cool just because I'm an athlete and I like it and I always want to know. And I love the athletic world and I have friends play different pro sports. That's fun. That for me as an adult, right? But the most important thing is all parents don't care what their kids data is as far as what they did on the tennis court or the basketball court or the football field. But all of them want to know is my kid okay and where are they? Are they safe? Vigs (31:12.18) Okay. Vigs (31:26.524) Yeah, and the beauty of it is you've already got the hardware platform. I mean, and you're gonna add GPS to that. You already got the hardware platform and now you can just release these updates kind of over the air, not only to new customers, but also to your existing customers and be like, hey, we do this now in addition. jonathan nussbaum (31:41.466) Correct. Correct. Vigs (31:44.308) Super cool. Well, we're about time now. So where should people go to find out more to support you? jonathan nussbaum (31:51.322) So they can go to our Instagram page, which is Lace Clips or our website and you know, feel free to direct message. It'll be me responding. So if you want to get in touch with me, that's there. Or if people wanted to email, they think they can email support at laceclips .com as well. And that'll get to me as well. So any of the above, you can ask any questions. You know, we're always looking for people that provide content, influencers that want to use our product and check it out and mess around with it. Always love to get feedback and love other people to tell other people about what we're doing and about our product. Vigs (32:22.196) Yeah, cool. I'll definitely be telling some of my basketball friends when I see them this weekend as well, because I think it's super cool. So yeah, thanks for coming on. Thanks for sharing your story. jonathan nussbaum (32:45.178) Great. Thanks so much.

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