Building Hardware to Strengthen Mind-Muscle Connection

✍️ Show Notes

Joining us this week is Ethan Pollak, co-founder of Pulse Device, a small nifty device that incorporates the idea of muscle tapping to help you get the most of your weightlifing workouts. Ethan quit his job in finance to go full-time on his idea, partnering with a design studio and building his network along the way. As a non-technical founder, he shares a lot of valuable insights into how he brought this hardware to life by being consistent, helpful, and always willing to learn.

🔗 Check out Pulse Device: pulsedevice.com

🔗 Follow on Instagram: @pulsedevice

🔑 Bytes:

• Have a solid plan ahead of time, and don't expect overnight success.
• Take a value-add approach to networking: Reach out to interesting people and always add value.
• If you're a perfectionist and it's getting in the way of shipping your product, think of 5 everyday products that you (and millions around the world) use. You can probably think of a few things that need improvement right? So ship your product and then build upon it.

💬 Full Transcript

Vignesh (00:00) Welcome back to Fika Bytes I've got Ethan here joining me from Pulse Device. Ethan, thanks so much for taking the time to come on here. Ethan Pollak (00:07) Hey, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure. Vignesh (00:10) Yeah, so let's pick up where we left off right before I hit record, which is tell me a little bit about yourself. Who are you? What did you do in the past before you came up with the idea for a Pulse device? Ethan Pollak (00:19) Absolutely. So I graduated from Northeastern University in 2020. After I graduated, I actually shipped it out to Utah to work at a private equity fund called Barlok Capital, where I was a financial analyst for just over a year. And while I was doing my financial analyst work, I was also thinking about starting my own business. I, in college, a friend and I actually used to power lift together. And whenever we would train together at the gym, we would use this technique called muscle tapping, where one of us would gently tap on the other one's muscles that we were trying to target and activate. And that really helps build that mind muscle connection and help you activate said muscle. So that idea we actually pitched to this club at Northeastern called Idea. And at the time, Northeastern actually told us it was a great idea, but they didn't have the student engineers that were capable of making this sort of tech. So that idea was always kind of sitting in the back of my head while I was working this finance job. And that job was really, really eye -opening for me. It gave me a lot of real -world experience and also taught me a lot about running my own business. And the financial modeling and the communication skills, those two things tied together really allowed me... to sit back and say, hey, this is what I need to do in order to make this dream a reality. So as I mentioned, about a year and a half in, I said, look, to my boss who was a great guy, I really just need to branch out and start my own thing. And one of my biggest regrets actually is not staying and working my job a little bit longer because I went basically immediately onto the road and said, hey, I'm raising money for this company. Meanwhile, there was still a lot of things that needed to be done before I really put my foot on the gas. So in just over four years ago, we pitched this idea to a product development studio in Utah where I had just quit my job. And the studio is called Modaliti, a great group of engineers and designers. And we said, look, we have this idea of muscle tapping. We want to turn it into a product. How do we go from this idea? to an actual product. And that's really how it started. We didn't know how we were gonna mimic that tap and really all of the underlying science as to why this tapping feeling works. So Modaliti said to us, look, there's a lot of different ways we can replicate this tap, but we think the best way is using vibration. And... Vignesh (02:57) Mm -hmm. Ethan Pollak (03:08) At this point, I should also mention that our other co -founder, Cole, actually moved to Utah to pursue further education. So he was going to University of Utah at the time, and I just quit my job and we both said, look, Modaliti loves this idea. They have a good way to replicate that tap and even make the product a little bit better than just that tapping feeling. Why don't we really commit to this thing? We're both super passionate about fitness and health. Let's do this. So again, Modaliti said, look, let's use vibration to mimic this tap. And we hadn't even heard of what was called whole body vibration at this point. And the reason that Modaliti said to us, you guys should use vibration is because of this idea of whole body vibration, which is performing exercises on a vibrating plate actually helps you increase muscle activation and gives you a wide range of benefits such as increased blood flow. improve flexibility, a lot of different performance and recovery benefits. So once we started this kind of like ideation and development process, we said, let's localize this vibration and use the same frequencies that are used by these whole body vibration plates and combine it with that mind muscle connection aspect from the tap. And that's really how the Pulse device actually came to life and how we started. really thinking, okay, this is a product versus just an idea. And that's when the development process started. I mean, I kind of just started to ramble after you asked me what my background was, but that's really how the product first came to life. Vignesh (04:46) Hahaha. Yeah, I know I have been taking mental notes of things that I want to go and pick out. So the first thing you said was when you're at your day job, you had, you learned a bunch of transferable skills to running your business. So I want to unpack that a little bit. So when you were at your job, were you actively thinking, Hey, these things that I'm doing here at my day job, they're one day going to help me start a business. Was that kind of your mentality? Ethan Pollak (05:12) You know, it wasn't like I was really like, I feel like I almost kind of made this sound different than what it was, but I was very focused at my day job when I was working there. Like I didn't go into it thinking, this is going to give me a bunch of skills to help me start my own business. I really was just doing my job and learning as I went that these skills were transferable to being an entrepreneur. And. Again, I was primarily doing financial modeling and that really came into use when structuring the finances of the company, whether that's looking for fundraising and figuring out how that transfers to a cap table and stuff like that. And then, like I mentioned before, the communication skills. Again, I didn't necessarily think that that would actually, well, I wasn't doing the job. with the end goal of being, I want to start my own business. I was just always thinking, wow, I really want to start my own business. And these skills, I'm just picking them up on the job, whether or not I start that business. And when you when you work for something like a private equity fund, you're in front of a lot of people that might be intimidating, a lot of professionals that that really know everything about everything. And just talking to those people. really built up my social skills and allowed me to further network myself after. Vignesh (06:46) Cool. And then the other thing I wanted to kind of pick pick on is you mentioned, you know, you have a finance background, but you wanted to make a physical device. And so that obviously requires a lot of engineering. on this podcast, we've had guests that have built their products in different ways. so Nick from Calibrex, so we just talked about, he is an engineer himself. And so he kind of did everything, all the development engineering himself. other people have went and found a co -founder or they have kind of built a prototype themselves. and then hired like a manufacturing partner overseas. And you pick the route, which again, some people do, which is go find a design studio and get them to work with you, have them be like the engineering brains behind it. So tell us a little bit about what that experience was like kind of picking a design partner, working with them, especially as someone that's not an engineer by trade. Ethan Pollak (07:35) Yeah, absolutely. So like I mentioned earlier, so when we first had this idea, we really had no idea how to turn it into a product. Again, we just knew about this technique we were using at the gym that really worked for us and that was it. So the first thing we started doing was looking for partners like Modaliti and some sort of development studio that really believed in the product and that also didn't want to take equity. because it was really important to us that we maintained full ownership at least at that stage. Because again, it was our baby, we wanted to bootstrap it and we also wanted some sort of studio that would just take some sort of hourly payment, whether that's a consulting firm, a development studio, whatever you want to call it. And we really looked through a bunch of different studios in order to find the right fit. And it just so happened to be that Modaliti, the team that they had really, really believed in this. And this was like, and that was really the most important thing for us, aside from just the equity component. It was finding engineers and designers that actually believed in the concept itself. And I got to give a shout out to Modaliti. I mean, these guys helped us through everything. Like they call themselves a development studio, but they help you with everything from the marketing, branding, everything, you name it, they'll help you with it. And, Again, just such a great team and so communicative, like we could call them on a Saturday night and they're there to help be a helping hand. So again, we were just looking for people that were true backers of the product. And it just turned out to be that they were the right fit and they happen to be in our city. We were looking at development studios all the way in New York and Modaliti just ended up being the best fit and it worked out great. Vignesh (09:30) Yeah, that's so awesome to hear that you guys found basically the perfect fit, not just from an engineering perspective, but they kind of saw the vision behind the idea and were there with you since day one. But a studio like that with all that expertise, they can't be cheap. So how did you and your co -founder at that point in time, how were you able to fund that without giving up equity? Ethan Pollak (09:50) Yeah, so initially we bootstrapped it. Like in the last few months of my job, I knew I had kind of been preparing myself to leave and do my own thing. So I started to save up some money that I could put towards making this a reality. And same went for our co -founder. He had some money saved up just through previous work. And that helped us get this thing off the ground. And yeah, the hourly fees were definitely a lot, but since we didn't have to give up part of our company, it really, really meant a lot to us. And we were willing to pay the premium for that. And luckily we're blessed with a great group of investors. We've got a strong network that is already quite experienced in the tech space. So we had support from all ends and that's something that was never an issue for us, which we're super blessed for. Vignesh (10:48) That's awesome. And one question I have about kind of working with a design firm, there's a wide variety of experiences out there. People have terrible experiences. People have great experiences. As someone who did have a really great experience, what are some things that you think you did right in order to have that experience? Because design studio is a design studio. They have multiple clients, right? But as a client of theirs, what did you think that kind of helped them and you work so well together, especially given that you're not an engineer by background? What were some of the maybe soft skills or some of the things that, you know, you had a very strong vision. What are your thoughts about that? Ethan Pollak (11:24) Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'd say first and foremost is the communication. I mean, Cole and I are the co -founder. One of the things that we made sure of was we really got our hands dirty. We were constantly going into their office and honestly, it might have bugged them at some points, but we were going in there even when seemingly everything was going perfect. We would go in there and check whether it was the drawings, the design, whatever it may be and really test and refine every single possible aspect. Like I know for a fact that Cole would say the same thing, which is we really tested relentlessly. I mean, if there was a tiny thing that we thought may cause some sort of issue or wasn't perfect, we worked as hard as possible to make it perfect. And with that being said, I also want to say like, The initial product is never gonna be perfect. I mean, that was a hump that we really had to get over because Cole and I were both perfectionists. And if there's anything I've learned, it's the fact that it's not gonna start perfect on day one. And you have to get a ton of feedback for years and years and years to get anywhere close to perfection. So that was something we kind of had to learn throughout the process. But again, you know, it's hard. It's like... Vignesh (12:48) How did you learn that? Was there like a tipping point? Ethan Pollak (12:53) It's so funny. It's like I had to, I had to really understand that a lot of these massive brands that have created amazing products still are getting feedback daily about how they can become better. And I started looking around at similar health tech on the market, like Hyper -Ice, Theragun, all these different products that I actually implement on a near day -to -day basis and say, look, There's five things I can think of that they can do better. This is the start of our product. It's going to be so far from perfect. We need as many minds and as many hands on this thing as possible. And that's why we've made such a big emphasis on getting feedback from our customers too, because a lot of times your customers are going to tell you a million different things that you never thought of, whether you have an engineering team or whatever. And yeah, it was a big hump to get over. I'm still getting over it, honestly, to this day. Because you want your customer to have the best experience, but everything great takes time is the reality of it. Vignesh (14:00) Yeah. and especially as the founder, you have that thing of like, I'm putting my baby out into the world and I want it to be like as perfect as possible. I mean, I had the same thing. what's that call like analysis paralysis? like with this podcast and this isn't even a hardware product. I was just like obsessing over all the details, the fonts and like the editing methods. And then I was like, I just got it. I just got to start putting stuff out there and start getting that feedback. Ethan Pollak (14:25) Exactly. And man, you did a great job. Like I mentioned before, I love the branding of this podcast. It's awesome. Vignesh (14:32) Thank you, Ethan. Okay, so let's talk about the customer feedback then, because there's a whole number of ways that you could do it. I want to know what happened when, you know, Ethan and Cole, when you guys received the initial batch of units from the manufacturer, from the production line, how did you go about saying, all right, we have these units now, now we got to put it in people's hands and we got to ask them how they feel about it. What did that look like from the moment that you received those devices? Ethan Pollak (14:58) Yeah, so when we received the devices, we actually didn't launch immediately. So we did, we basically did a pre -sale in order to get that feedback that you mentioned. So for about two months, we actually soft launched and basically just gathered as much feedback as we can at a discounted price. So we did this pre -sale that basically had a $60 discount. And we said, look, The main reason we're giving you this discount is because we want to hear all of your thoughts and opinions on this product. And that was a really, really great move on our part because we immediately heard, I mean, so many things we hadn't thought of. And a lot of times I feel like it's easy when you're starting something, especially when you launch it after being a perfectionist to think, okay, this is the greatest thing ever. And... And we found out very quickly that there was a lot of problems that we hadn't even considered. Like the first problem being our adhesive. And it's so crazy because if you had asked us what our biggest problems would be on day one, I would have never in a million years told you it was going to be the adhesive. And it definitely was the adhesive among a couple other things. But yeah, it's crazy. We found out that we hadn't done nearly enough adhesive testing. We tested probably close to a hundred different adhesives before that pre -sale even started. And pretty much within the first month, we found out that people that sweat even like a medium amount, they're not heavy sweating. We're having trouble with our silicone gel. And that's been something that we're still working on to this day. Like we found a much better adhesive since then. But the reality is that, adhesives are not easy to find and they're not easy to apply if you have moist skin. That's like a very common thing in the medical industry. And it's crazy. We're still looking for the perfect solution, so to say, now. So that was like the first thing we did to really start getting that feedback was that pre -sale. And then after that, we've made a huge point to just connect with our customers. And We do that mainly through email campaigns. But what we find is that a lot of times customers are willing to explain their experience with the product if you just ask, you just have to ask. And what happened was is we would get returns and every single time we got a return, we'd say, hey, we'd greatly appreciate if you could just let us know what your expectations of the product were and why you're returning it. And that really led. to a lot of fruitful conversations that really told us exactly where the problems lied. And that's really, building that initial feedback loop into a reoccurring feedback loop with all of our customers has been like a really, really great move that we've done. Vignesh (18:10) Nice. And so that's kind of what we can think of is like other companies have kind of built communities around their early adopters. And they do things like they crowdsource feature lists. They get together and like have beta testers for their new features before it goes to the general public. And it sounds like that's kind of what you're, you know, in the process of creating here is this loyal fan base that is going to be a, be a supporter no matter what, always be honest, give you their feedback and then kind of. be those early adopters that are ready to test stuff that isn't ready for the mass market yet. Ethan Pollak (18:43) Absolutely, and we've actually done a little bit of beta testing as well. So we actually have, we have this separate mode on our application that allows you to manipulate the backend vibration settings. And what we do is for select customers that again have maybe provided us with a lot of feedback or there's someone that's really experienced in this field, whether that's a personal trainer, an athletic trainer, or... someone that's implemented whole body vibration into their practice before, something like that, and gotten them to use this developer mode, we call it, and really tell us how can we make this thing better, what's worked best for your clients and patients. Vignesh (19:27) Yeah, what's the, what's the like reception been? So I, I know you told me kind of some of the people were returning it and you would get their feedback. Tell me more about the positive side of things, like the people that loved it. Are they like loving it? Are they using it every day? How has it been received in those circles? Ethan Pollak (19:41) Yeah, absolutely. So the feedback lately has been overwhelmingly positive, mainly because we were able to address one, that adhesive issue by not only get it sourcing a better adhesive, but by also releasing a strap. So we now have a strap that actually holds the device down and keeps it steady on moist skin or hairy skin. So that was a really big addition that we made. But. Honestly, like the feedback has been so great. We've been we've been getting about an 8 % returning rate of customers. So a lot of people are repurchasing adhesives from us or buying another product, whether that's for their family or friends. And the biggest piece of positive feedback that we get is actually from people that have suffered from injuries. So initially, this really started off as a niche weightlifting device. We made the Pulse device. in order to help lifters target and activate stubborn muscles. That was who our demographic was, at least who we thought it was, because again, Cole and I, we were weightlifters. He was a bodybuilder, I was a powerlifter, and that was really, again, why we created this thing. But even, like, about a year and a half ago when we started our paid marketing efforts, within the first six months of really pushing our ad spend, we found out very quickly that a lot of people like physical therapists, chiropractors, and other health practitioners were using this on clients that needed some sort of help, additional help to engage a certain stubborn muscle. And a lot of those people with stubborn muscles are people that have suffered from injury or just have general neuromuscular issues. So this has really started to shine with... re -educating people on how to properly target and activate specific muscles and really giving them that proprioceptive enhancement to tell them, hey, this is where the muscle that you're targeting is on your body and here's how to better activate it. And again, that's really been our bread and butter. With that being said, we've been getting a lot of positive feedback from weightlifters as well. And it's been such a wide range. Vignesh (21:51) Mm. Ethan Pollak (22:02) of people using it, which we find really interesting too. Because really, if you're a beginner, the problem with beginners for us is the fact that a beginner might not know what a strong contraction feels like. They might not know what this device is even supposed to do. But if you're kind of reaching that one year into your fitness journey and you have a good idea of what a great workout feels like, you'll definitely start to pick up on that. But Vignesh (22:18) Mm -hmm. Ethan Pollak (22:31) really that medium level lifter was kind of the best possible target market for us because they know exactly what muscles on their physique they would consider weak points. They know what a really good contraction feels like. They see results. They and that's really where we've gotten the most of our positive feedback. Aside from just people that have suffered from injuries were using this to again re -educate themselves. And then experts like bodybuilders even get good utility out of our product because they might have one inhibited muscle group that they've struggled with forever. And I'll tell you a popular one is chest. Like a lot of people struggle to build or target a certain part of their chest. And we've gotten some great feedback about that. So yeah, the track has been great. We've really seemingly figured out. a lot of the different faults that were inhibiting our business for quite some time. And honestly, it's awesome to see these positive reviews come in. That's what fires us up and keeps us motivated. But yeah, it's crazy how it's kind of transformed into this weightlifting slash physical therapy device. And hopefully in the future, some sort of clinical device as well. Vignesh (23:53) Yeah. And going back to what we were saying about, you know, putting stuff out there, you wouldn't have known any of that unless you actually like put this out there and like run that ad campaign. and I think it's, it's really interesting. You brought up the education piece too, cause this isn't a device that you just intuitively know what to do with it. There's gotta be some kind of education. I mean, there's going to be the people that do know what it does, but then to get to the broad market, there's gotta be like an education aspect. and so it's good that you guys have already kind of. started doing that and maybe in the future, you know, doing more kind of content creation in that education side of like, okay, how do we get new users that maybe are just getting into weightlifting and don't really understand like the science behind muscle tapping, just to kind of get that user base. Ethan Pollak (24:33) Absolutely. And I love that you mentioned the education piece again, because one of the things that we've done too is we've released an ebook now. So we give all of our customers access to this ebook that tells them everything they could possibly want to know, whether that's how to use this device best during a leg workout, and then showing them actual links to content where it's someone using this during their leg workout. or using this during a warm up or using this during the recovery. So that's been a really big value add too, because again, a lot of people might not intuitively know exactly how they're supposed to use this thing. So the education really helps them adopt this sort of technology. Vignesh (25:15) Yeah, and I just, you know, I just, I love kind of where you're at today with the company. Congrats on your success so far. And it sounds like you guys have built something that people want and you're kind of in a position ready for, for takeoff. If you were to look back and let's say, do all this over again, what are some things that you would do differently? You know, in case it helps other founders who are maybe a lot earlier on their journey than where you are. Ethan Pollak (25:40) Yeah, absolutely. And I mentioned this earlier, but I need to say it as many times as I can, which was the biggest mistake from a personal standpoint was the fact that I kind of just expected everything to happen at the click of a button. Like when I first started this company with Cole, I quit my job with very little plan. I mean, I definitely had somewhat of a plan. But I quit thinking that we were going to raise this money and I'm going to have enough work to do to basically like this was going to be my whole life on day one. And the reality is, is that day one of starting a business, especially just a startup, a niche startup like ours, it's not going to blow up overnight. You need to save a lot of money because otherwise you're going to be asking family and friends. to help you out with rent at some point or another. So if I had any advice to give to a founder or someone that's thinking about starting their own company, it's save your money first, create a really good plan, and just know that it's not gonna happen overnight. You are putting this in your life for the long haul. And again, nothing great comes easy. So it's all the more important to just understand that, Maybe you should stay at that job a little bit longer so you can save up a little bit more money. Maybe you should talk to more people before you actually get started, whether that's reaching out to a bunch of people on LinkedIn or emailing people in the same space, whatever it may be. But just make sure you have a really solid plan and that you have some money saved up because the entrepreneurial life is really, really tough, especially in the first couple of years. So. Just make sure you do that. The other piece of advice, which we've talked about quite a bit, is just making sure to get feedback from your customers. I mean, I can't tell you how many times people that are way smarter than me told me, look, you need to ask your customers about everything. Ask them if they like your packaging. Ask them if they like the design of your device or if there's any other way you can make it better. And they will tell you everything. You are gonna reach a lot of people That are very willing to talk and again, just ask just ask the questions So that's really important and then the last thing I'd say is surround yourself with people that have a similar vision to you that want to see you win and That's been extremely important for us and we're so fortunate again, like we've got a really strong network around us and Vignesh (28:08) Mm. Ethan Pollak (28:36) it's so important to be around like -minded people that are having similar thoughts and want to grow their, like their, want to see you win, but also want to grow themselves and try to help them as much as you can too. Like don't, don't just take, make sure to give as well and provide value where you can. I know a lot of the connections that we've made have been completely organically, whether that's just because. Vignesh (28:55) Mm -hmm. Ethan Pollak (29:03) of an email where we said, hey, look, we'd love to connect it. And if you could help us out, we'd greatly appreciate it. Or we're reaching out to someone and saying, hey, I know someone in this space that could be great for your podcast, for example, or something like that. In addition, I'd love to talk about how we can help each other grow our brands or whatever it is. And some of the best connections that you would never expect happen because of that. And I think. Vignesh (29:23) Mm -hmm. Ethan Pollak (29:30) I think that's something that they really need to teach more in school. It's like, just reach out to everyone you possibly can. I mean, legitimately fire off a thousand emails, a thousand LinkedIn messages. Out of those thousand messages, one of those people is gonna be willing to talk to you and give you some advice at the very least. So make sure you do that. Make sure you connect with everyone you can. And yeah, that's what I would say. Vignesh (29:58) I'm so glad you brought that up. And I just want to give like a moment of silence to let that sink in because like when I started cold emailing people, I feel like that truly changed my adult life. and actually, so I'm putting together like a, a hardware product development, like a summer program sort of thing. And in my syllabus for that week two is literally cold email people, like send a bunch of random emails to people, connect with people on LinkedIn. And, you know, it's always about adding value, not, always just asking for stuff. So like what you're saying, go, go to them with an idea, give them a suggestion. you know, if you're a potential customer, maybe give them some feedback and use that to like kickstart that relationship. and I'm so glad you actually went into the detail of how you built your network. Cause a lot of people are like, yeah, have a good support system. And it's like, how, you know, if someone that wants to do it, they don't know how. And I think you laid out a very good plan there for someone to like, if they want to build that support system, go talk to people, go email people. but always try to add value to those people. Ethan Pollak (31:00) Absolutely and on top of that one step further is like connect with people that you might think are Completely in a different realm than you too. Like I can't I can't tell you how many times I've spoken to someone and there's seemingly no sort of synergy at first glance and then that person knows someone that happens to be in your industry or Gives you really great advice, even though they're not in the same same space as you. It's like, really just keep a really open mind and it'll really help you a lot. It will help you a lot. And I love that you have that in your course. I mean, that is, it's so, so important. Vignesh (31:46) Yeah. I think curiosity is also like a part of it to play the, for me at least, like if I see a cool company, I'll get curious. I'll be like, who's behind this? And I'll go like find their LinkedIn, get a little bit about their background. And while I'm at it, might as well send them some connection requests, you know, and like start building those like familiar names in your, in your system. Ethan Pollak (32:04) Absolutely. And a lot of these people, they just want to talk. I mean, like a lot of these people are really happy to have a conversation just because they love having conversations. And it's awesome. And it's like, a lot of times you might get on a phone call and all you're doing is listening, but you'll get a lot out of listening. So it's just the curiosity thing, it really hits home for me too. Vignesh (32:31) Yeah, that's cool. I love your ideas and your kind of approach to all this. It feels very synergetic with my mentality as well. So last one before I let you go here, looking forward now, what's next for Pulse device and what could our listeners, our supporters, what could they do to help you out and help you take this all the way? Ethan Pollak (32:52) Yeah, no, thanks for asking that. So what's next for Pulse device is a couple of different things. One is really becoming more involved in the weightlifting community. This is still such a small scale startup. I mean, it's basically untapped. And what we're realizing now is that, yes, maybe there's serious gym intimidation and a lot of people won't want to wear this at the gym, but The other side of it is the fact that a lot of people, because of their want to get better and to build the best version of themselves, are willing to take that step and use this device, whether that's under clothing at first, or if they just want to use it at home during one specific exercise where they have trouble hitting a certain muscle, whatever it may be. So we still want to grow our presence in the weightlifting community. But then the other big side of things is... really deeper diving into this physical therapy and recovery market. So again, I mentioned before that this device is really seeming to show a lot of promise for people that need help with neuromuscular function and proprioceptive function. But on top of that, there's all these different clinical applications that a lot of research shows could have a lot of benefit using localized vibration. For example, there's some outstanding research that talks about vibrations impact on paralysis. So if we could help people that are suffering from immobilization, I mean, that would be incredible. And then the other side of it too is general recovery applications. So general wellness things like soreness, pain, tension, we've started to get a lot of great feedback from that because what we didn't realize is if you make the vibrations constant versus a tap, It basically serves as a gentle alternative to a massage gun and works really, really well. So there's kind of this wide spectrum of different use cases for warmups, workouts, and recovery. So we really want to deeper dive into that recovery section, which I guess I kind of categorize as general wellness and PT. And... Vignesh (34:52) Hmm. Ethan Pollak (35:13) If you don't wanna buy the product, that's totally fine, but what would really help us is just giving us a follow or a comment or a like on social media. That always helps. And yeah, don't hesitate to reach out to me. I'm super happy you reached out to me. This has been an awesome conversation and I can't wait to connect with you on a further level. But yeah, that's how people can help. Vignesh (35:37) Cool, and I'll make sure to put all those social and website links when this episode goes live. But yeah, Ethan, thanks so much for coming on, for taking the time. You guys are really kind of, you have this finished product in your hands and I see you just like tapping into all these different markets, no pun intended. So all the best to you and yeah, thanks again for sharing your story. Ethan Pollak (35:54) Hahaha! Absolutely, and thanks again for having me. This has been awesome.

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