Solve Your Own Problem, Serve a Niche

✍️ Show Notes

Jon Fawcett went from running an engineering design company to accidentally creating an iPhone accessories company that shipped globally. He then channeled all those learnings into Sugar Pixel, his newest creation that provides reliable, phone-free, blood glucose monitoring and alerts, aiming to help improve the lives of millions of people around the world.

🔗 Check out Sugar Pixel

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• Solve your own problem, so you will know the product best instead of spending money on focus groups or upfront customer research.
• To create awareness and demand, go where your users are. In Jon's case, Facebook support groups knew the pain point well and gave Sugar Pixel virality with just two posts!
• Whatever past experience and knowledge you have, use it to your advantage! It will give you an edge in one way or another. For everything else, use the Internet.

💬 Full Transcript

Vigs (00:00) All right, we're live. I've got Jon here with me. Jon, you've got an interesting product called the SugarPixel. So I want to jump right into that. I want to learn more about your background. So let's start off with that. Tell us about SugarPixel. Jon Fawcett (00:08) you All right, great. So SugarPixel is an alarm- think of it like an alarm clock for continuous glucose monitors. So if people don't know what that is, it's just a tiny little device that usually goes on your arm. It's a medical device that measures your blood sugar. So throughout the day, it'll tell you if you're going high or low. And for people with type one diabetes, type two diabetes, even other genetic diseases like There's some hypoglycemic diseases where you can have an emergency that's a low blood sugar or high blood sugar. A lot of people, they're running the app on their phone and they forgot the mute switch was on on their iPhone or it's in do not disturb or any number of reasons that they don't hear that emergency alert coming through their phone. So SugarPixel links to the cloud data from all of the continuous glucose monitor companies. and has built -in alerts in a dedicated hardware device. So there's no volume switch or do not disturb switch that you could accidentally forget to leave on. So that's the sort of the high level basis of it. Vigs (01:27) Okay, so just to kind of set the scene here, there are existing glucose monitors on the market and they connect to their own interface, maybe they have their own apps. And what you're trying to do is kind of combine all that and create a physical representation that's going to be a lot better for the user. Is that right? Jon Fawcett (01:43) Yeah. And it's, it's, think of it like, sort of the backup emergency alarm system is if all else fails and they didn't get the alert from their phone when they had an emergency medical situation, that's, that's the purpose of sugar pixel is if all else fails, it's still going to give you that alert. And especially for overnight, if someone's sleeping, they may not, may not just wake up from not feeling well. So they need that alert to wake them up. Vigs (02:13) Yeah, that makes sense. And so we're talking audible and visual alerts with the light and the sound. Jon Fawcett (02:19) audible, visual, and even vibration haptic alerts. So, and a little bit about that since you mentioned the alerts, we've done a couple of cool things with the alerts for the audio. We created a random tone generator. So one of the problems most people, you know, they don't wake up to their alarm clock. It's the same thing for people getting medical alerts. They're hearing the same sound over and over. Vigs (02:24) Okay. Jon Fawcett (02:46) And it's called brain habituation. And there's so many studies about this. Your brain just starts to ignore it. So sugar pixel randomizes in real time, the pitch, the duration, the pause between tones, and it creates random audio patterns in real time. So you'll never hear the same pattern twice, even if you let it play for five hours straight. So it, it helped. Vigs (03:12) So where did you get that idea? Jon Fawcett (03:17) I honestly can't remember other than, you know, it's this product built from our own family's need. So it was sort of the, I knew what we had was, you know, eventually we'd sleep through it. So what are some of the things we could try and do other than just making it louder? What are some other things we can do? And we stumbled upon some, some clinical studies that were specifically talking about alerting. And that might've been where. we first had the thought process. And then the second thing with the alerts, the vibration alert. So it's actually a little, little puck about this big, just attached to a cable that plugs into the back of the device. You put it underneath your pillow. So when you're sleeping, your head's compressed onto the pillow and those vibrations go right through the back of your skull. So it's, it's, it's sort of like the same type of thought as your watch vibrating. And the vibration pattern is also randomized. So obviously there's no pitch, but the on off of the vibrations randomly changes. And that's, I'm sure everybody's had their phone in their pocket and thought it was vibrating, reached down to, you know, it's phantom vibrations. So this helps stop that type of thing. Vigs (04:30) Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's I'm sitting here a little bit astounded at the moment because like it is, you know, in the grand scheme, it's a minor feature, but the fact that you've thought about it to the fact of like the research behind it. and just before this, I was reading a like psychological product design study and they were talking about the Amber alert system, which you and I both know is like this to really annoying. And there was some crazy, just like 80 % or something of people have become desensitized to that because it's always the exact same. And so. You're like right on the money there with what you're trying to do. Have you your users commented specifically on that feature? Jon Fawcett (05:08) Yeah. Yeah. so on both of those on the random audio and on the vibration and it's, it's, so, you know, I've always felt like some of the best products and product ideas and features of products come from somebody at the company that's solving their own need, because when you're solving your own need, you, you do it in a way that's not just a focus group or something like that, where things can get lost and how. You really need it. And for our situation, my daughter was 16 at the time. and I had the thought of, she's going to be 18 in two years, which is actually now she's 18 and today was her last day of high school. So she could potentially be moving out, living on her own at any time. She has to be able to wake up to the emergency medical alerts. So as a, as a parent with a child. I had to solve our own need and that really hit the mark for what thousands of other people in our exact same situation were looking for at the same time. Vigs (06:21) Hmm. Yeah. And I say a lot about that because when you solve your own need, like you said, not only is there that personalized, you experience the problem yourself and you can test out the solution. It's also that you don't have to spend a bunch of money on like user studies or like go talk to a bunch of people. It's like, you can solve it for yourself and then go get that feedback. Jon Fawcett (06:40) Mm -hmm, exactly. Vigs (06:41) So your background before SugarPixel, you did have a little bit of background in hardware and iPhone accessories, right? You want to tell us a little bit about that journey? Jon Fawcett (06:50) Yeah, well, I can even rewind a little bit further. So even prior to that, I owned and ran a design engineering consulting company. So we were designing products and hard, mostly hardware. We did do software, but most of it was hardware for any company and every company you can imagine. Everybody from seats that are, that are in the citrus bowl. the actual seats that you sit on to vacuum cleaners, to soap dispensers and anything and everything in between. So as a consulting company though, you know the sort of the design phase, the engineering phase, but then I had no idea about how to get it to market, marketing, that type of stuff. We even essentially worked up to the level of, Vigs (07:16) Hmm. Jon Fawcett (07:47) getting it into manufacturing. So I knew everything from all the design and engineering to having a product sitting in my hands, but then what do I do with it sitting in my hands? So. Vigs (07:49) Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, but not the marketing or the user aspect, because that was always your client's responsibility. Jon Fawcett (07:59) So then a little website comes along and starts getting popular called Kickstarter. And I had an idea for an iPhone cable that would be wrapped in several layers of steel so that it could be flexible still, because the steel kind of intertwined. So it'd be flexible, but also rigid enough that you could use it as an actual stand. So you have the cable sitting on your desk, coil it up and set your phone and it hold your phone up in the air just off of the charge port. We launched that on Kickstarter for a point of reference. When we launched, there was only a single million dollar project and Pebble was currently live. So that's wave the Pebble, essentially the first smartwatch. We didn't know what to expect, but it was an idea that I had that I thought was. Vigs (08:48) Yeah. Yeah. Jon Fawcett (08:57) cool and wanted to have it on my desk and use it myself. And we threw it up and sort of accidentally started an iPhone and smartphone accessories company. So 30 days later, we raised right around a quarter of a million dollars and launched a company. And this was when yeah, it was when most Kickstarter were they were getting 10, 20, 30. I think at the time we were the Vigs (09:13) Wow. awesome. Mm. Jon Fawcett (09:26) 20 highest funded project. Now we're way down. You know, it's been, that was 2012. So it's been 12 years later, but that company just, and I attribute a lot of the startup success to Kickstarter because it just exploded immediately. Everybody was writing about it from, you know, Mac rumors and iPhone life magazine and New York times, everybody. and then that caused a bunch of distributors and retailers and resellers to start reaching out. So in very short order, in 2016, that company was named number 172 on the Inc 500 fastest growing private companies in America list. So that's, that was how fast that group. Vigs (10:04) Thanks. Nice. Jon Fawcett (10:21) And the reason this is important for SugarPixel is because by 2016, four years into that company, we were selling into every single country except for obviously like US embargoed countries, North Korea, things like that. And a handful of just the countries where like Apple doesn't even sell into, for instance. So we were... Vigs (10:46) Mm -hmm. Jon Fawcett (10:49) selling in 150 or so 160 countries all over the world. We had about 50 different distributors everywhere from, you know, like we're in the US, so everywhere from Canada and the US all the way to India, South Africa, Namibia, Philippines, everywhere on the planet. And part of that, yeah. Vigs (11:13) And at this point, sorry, at this point, was it still just the one product that your company had, which is this iPhone cable? Jon Fawcett (11:21) No, we had, by the time we hit about 2016, I think we had probably about... 10 different unique products. Now, some of them were Apple Lightning cable, Apple Lightning connector, micro USB or USB -C. So it was the same sort of underlying product with different connectors on it. But we had a, we had, so we had a global network of people that we were having to work with, having to sell through, having to figure out. import laws in various countries, logistics of shipping from a factory in China or Taiwan to Saudi Arabia, for instance. And there were times where we would ship entire containers without ever seeing them and know that it got there and ended up on a store shelf. At first, there's a little bit of this going on, but when you... Vigs (12:09) Mm -hmm. They're awesome. Jon Fawcett (12:27) You look at that background when you're going to start something new in hardware. And that was a tremendous resource that we could draw on because we already had a global supply chain, global logistics. So we knew, we now knew everything to be able to, as soon as we had a prototype, start getting it manufactured without any delay. And then as soon as it was manufactured, know the best ways to ship it all over the world. Know that if you ship from this country to this other country, it's going to be 12 % versus 20 % VAT or GST or all of those types of things went a long way to help us launch SugarPixel much faster than we would have otherwise. Vigs (13:08) Mm -hmm. Yeah, you kind of had that infrastructure network already established from your first company. So I want to kind of unpack, you went from being the engineering design agency owner and then to now selling to 150, 160 countries. How did you actually learn that? Like, was it a bunch of Googling? Were you reaching out to people? Jon Fawcett (13:35) It was mostly Google. Yes. So Google knows everything. You just might have to read, you know, the first five pages of search to figure out the answer. Although these days I'd encourage anybody else that's listened to this, if they're in a situation of trying to learn that, start on chat GPT because, and ask the question there, because that's already, the AI has already read the first hundred pages of the search results. So. It's going to give you the summary of all of those, but it was a lot of, a lot of Googling, searching at times, calling people the first time. So one of the places we sold to was, it's called Saudi company for hardware. It's actually ACE hardware in Saudi Arabia, but there's apparently a law that, no company can be named higher than the king. So ACE. in a deck of cards was considered higher than the King. So it's a different company name. But we had to actually figure out not only US State Department, but we had to contact the Saudi embassy in or consulate in New York City. They had to sign off on it. So we had to send all kinds of documents to, we started with our local chamber of commerce. They had to certify stuff. Then we had to take those documents to the US State Department Commerce Division. They had to certify it. Then we had to take those documents to the Saudi consulate and they had to certify it. Then we had to FedEx those documents to Hong Kong so that they could actually physically, the physical hard copies, be put in with the shipment for when it arrived in Riyadh. So that whole process just... Figuring that out the very first time took me like two months and it was Google and calling and all kinds of stuff. But then once you learn it, document your steps and then the next time it's easily repeatable. So it, there's a lot of learning curve. For us, the biggest, because I had the design and engineering so many years of that background, the learning curve wasn't. Vigs (15:47) Mm -hmm. Jon Fawcett (15:59) the actual product. It was everything after the product. It was the shipping and the importing and those types of things. Vigs (16:01) Mm. Yeah. Yeah. So one question there, what gave you two months is a lot of time to like spend digging through all this to sell something in a different country. What gave you the conviction that your product would sell in those countries? Did you see demand already at that point? Jon Fawcett (16:19) They called us and wanted to place a massive order that was, I think, two full shipping containers worth of iPhone cables, which is a whole lot of iPhone cables. So the ACE hardware in Saudi Arabia is not the ACE hardware that we see in the US. It's like an Ikea slapped on the side of a Home Depot. That's how big these stores are. They're mall size almost. And like, I think there were 60, 60 registers. So it's a, it's a destination store where sort of like today you'd in the U S you'd say, well, you know, do you want to sell in Walmart and have your product in every single checkout line of every single Walmart in the country? Most people would say, yeah, obviously that's going to sell no matter what the product is, it's going to sell because of the volume they have. Vigs (17:07) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that company is that company still around by the way. Okay. So you started that company, launched it to great success, figured everything out. And then you started working on sugar pixel. So tell me about the kind of initial prototype when you first came up with the idea and started working on it. Jon Fawcett (17:18) Yes, yeah, that company is still around. So the initial prototype, what was, I bought several DIY kits, other products, like there's, there's, there's nothing in the medical field like what we make that has all these types of features, but there's people that have made alarm clocks or, you know, little pixel displays that scroll your Instagram tags or whatever. There's, there's, products like that. So I bought a bunch of those, just started ripping them apart and bought two or three Arduino dev boards, not necessarily Arduino, but Arduino, ESP32, et cetera. And literally just started putting simple code in Arduino IDE to try and figure it out. And the first code was literally like, how do I figure out how to make this LED panel show Say hello. It was literally a holo world type of thing. And so the very first actual full prototype was ESP32 dev board stuffed inside a three printed housing that I made with the LED panel that I ripped out of another product. Everything was wired with jumper cables inside and it was like, It was a fire hazard waiting to happen. I mean, it had probably half a mile of jumper cables all over the place stuffed inside this housing. So that was actually a fully functional unit that like from a software, sorry, firmware, sorry, my dog in the background. From a firmware standpoint, we had the base sort of the... Vigs (19:04) Hehehe. you That's okay. Jon Fawcett (19:31) MVP, minimum viable product figured out. And it was just, it was, you know, just sort of at that point, figuring out how to make the electronics then that weren't, you know, hand soldered stuff, all crammed inside a case. Vigs (19:51) Yeah. So was this at this point, was this just you kind of tinkering in, you know, at home building this yourself? Okay. That's awesome. Jon Fawcett (19:56) It, in my house. Yeah. It was just, it was tinkering with it every day, trying to get it working. and once I sort of had that final thing and started thinking through how to now take it into production. we have a local, there's a local, business acquaintance that I'm, I've known for years that was also formerly Kickstarter. That's a circuit board fabrication. house and they're literally in Cleveland, Ohio, right around the corner from us that has full pick and pick and place circuit board machines and everything. So we contacted them to assist with production circuit boards. We were ordering components from by, by this time we'd found actual suppliers, not just ripping apart of the product. So we found suppliers of. all the other components and there's not really a ton of components. It's circuit board, a speaker, the LED panel, a button and housing. And then obviously like USB wall plug and stuff like that. But, the, so we had all the components sourced except for the housing. And I was sort of in the same situation I was in when I launched fuse chicken with the iPhone cables is I can go build an injection mold, but it's going to cost 10, 20, 30, $40 ,000. So we launched the product, not knowing how, not knowing if it was going to be like something that everybody needed and we'd sell a lot of them versus sell five. We were 3D printing all of the housings ourselves. So, so at right when we, so we built our injection molds probably four months. Vigs (21:42) quantities that we're talking. Jon Fawcett (21:53) five months after we launched, maybe six even. And when we built the injection molds, I had four Creality Ender V2s running and three Sovol dual head printers that, so the Sovols essentially were the equivalent of two Enders at the same time. So I had... Seven, eight, nine, something like that. All running 24 hours a day and the entire set. Yeah. I spent so much time in Cura, tweaking the tiniest little details to see if it would be like shave off five minutes, five more minutes, because I had to get the timing such that I could start one right before I went to bed and it would be finished right when I woke up. So each, each build was about. seven hours and 45 minutes. So unless the machine went down, I was running three builds per day and it worked out with my sleep schedule. So we were building, we were building like 50 or 60 or something units per day, full sets. But then you throw in, the head clogged overnight. So that whole set scrapped. So really it was more like, Vigs (22:50) Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Jon Fawcett (23:18) We're probably getting 30 sets per day, just from machine downtime, machine upkeep, failed builds. I bought, I was buying 40 spools of PLA at once. And there were times where I'd go to order more PLA. They were out because I had bought hundreds of rolls in the last month. So we. Vigs (23:24) Right. Wow. Jon Fawcett (23:47) When we realized we're going to sell enough to recoup our injection molding costs, we had the housings built. I got rid of all the printers, but I have one ender left at my house and that's it. Vigs (24:03) I bet that felt good to not run that 24 -hour operation all the time. Jon Fawcett (24:08) yeah, it was fabulous because it was a lot of work to keep that many printers running 24 hours a day. It takes a lot. Vigs (24:17) Yeah, definitely. And when you first started, kind of, you know, you had that prototype, what told you that it was ready for mass production? Because initially, like we were discussing, you were kind of solving your own pain point. And so you put together that prototype. I'm sure you saw that there was some good use getting out of it. What convinced you to start ramping up and start seeing if other people would want this product? Jon Fawcett (24:42) So we took an interesting approach for sales in that we launched without having any built other than finished production samples. So we knew production was spot on and we can just flip the switch and start building them. And we launched with a six week lead time. So we used the first two weeks to gauge the response. and sort of know, okay, do I need to just build 10 of these or do I need to tell them to start building and don't stop until I tell them to stop? And so that really helped. And it probably took, it took until we, no, it was even after, I was going to say until we had our injection bolted housings before we sort of caught up. When we had those, we were able to cut that. six week delivery time down to like two weeks, but there were still times where we would be short of stock or whatever. So we launched a second factory. Actually, we build, we built half here in the U S, at the local factory down the street. And we build half at a Taiwan factory. That's actually the same company that I've worked with for the last 12 years for iPhone products. Vigs (26:08) Okay, nice. Jon Fawcett (26:09) So it was a company that had a long standing relationship with and could easily already knew they were qualified to do it. You know, there wasn't going to be any issues. So we were able to get them up and running pretty quick, but that was about, that was probably about a whole year after we launched, before we had the second factory up. And it took until then to really be completely caught up with the demand that we had. Vigs (26:17) Mm -hmm. Yeah. How'd you create that demand? Was it like running paid ads? Jon Fawcett (26:39) It is now. We do run paid Facebook ads now, but at launch I posted two Facebook posts. Now that we're talking about a medical community and it's in the 330 million people that live in the U .S. there are like 1 .5 million. Vigs (26:57) Yes. Jon Fawcett (27:09) people with type one diabetes, which is the primary target for this. That's where they have to take insulin 24 hours a day and they have to monitor their blood sugar very, very close. So you're talking about, compared to the total population, a relatively small group of people. And when you look at some of the Facebook groups, there's 30, 50, 70 ,000 people in some of these Facebook groups. Just of that community. So you're literally one Facebook group reaches like 5 % of the entire demographic for the U S market. So I did two Facebook posts and I've never been involved in something that went viral before. Like this was my, so my iPhone products, I wouldn't call it that because all of our push came from. Vigs (27:50) Yeah. Yeah. Jon Fawcett (28:08) The press, the press just at the time they, they would write about anything related to Kickstarter because it wasn't oversaturated yet. So the press drove that, but what happened was I did two Facebook posts. People started buying it. As soon as people started getting it in their hands, they started posting about it. And I couldn't, could not do any marketing for an entire year ourselves. because we could barely keep up with the demand from our users posting after they received it. Vigs (28:45) Yep, you did it. You found your loyal fans. That's awesome. I bet that gave you a lot of validation too in this product that you built. And I mean, how was that experience going viral for the first time? Jon Fawcett (28:56) It's pretty cool. And the best part about it, the best part about this whole company is it's polar opposite of what Fuse Chicken was. So Fuse Chicken, we're making not just consumer products, we're making consumer tech. And it's a cutthroat world from retailers, distributors, and it's... It sort of showed me like the 12 years of that company sort of showed me like the worst parts of corporate greed and things like that. Now you flip, you flip to sugar pixel and we're literally making a product that saves people's lives. That they, it's, it's waking them up where nothing else had woken them up. for a medical emergency. And more so than the, like the biggest, the biggest sort of feeling I get from the whole company is just the fact that we're able to help as many people as we've been able to. Vigs (30:11) Yeah, that's awesome. I bet your daughter is really proud of you for doing that. Jon Fawcett (30:15) Yeah, she's been part of it since the beginning too. So she's come to some of the trade shows and stood at the booth and conferences and things like that too. Vigs (30:26) That's so cool. I love that story. So roadmap then, looking ahead, when we talked earlier, you said that you kind of focused on the sugar pixel because that's been your best seller and you've dabbled in other stuff. What's the future of the company, of the product, and where do you see it going in the next five, 10 years? Jon Fawcett (30:44) Yeah. So we, we have other products already prototyped, like literally sitting on the shelf and I can't bring myself to manufacture them because, I look at it and I think, well, is this, a, is it just going to divert our focus? You know what I mean? And, and would be bad for what we can do pushing sugar pixel forward. and bad for the whole company, but also does it have anything that is substantial that we can't do with SugarPixel? Like some functionality that adds a benefit, a safety benefit, a health benefit, things like that, that we can't just include in SugarPixel's firmware updates. So we've sort of just kept those on the shelf. And I don't know if they will ever see the light of day. Maybe, maybe not. and we've put all of our focus on the firmware updates. And so SugarPixel has two pieces of software. One is the firmware running on our actual hardware. And then the other is we have a mobile app that is essentially just used to configure it. So the mobile app connects by Bluetooth and it has all the settings and changes and stuff like that to do the configuration. So we're working on a few things. We probably release software updates on average about once every three months and firmware updates for the SugarPixel with new functionality. The next functionality we're adding is actually something we've been excited about. We're adding a new continuous glucose monitor that people can sync up with. So it's going to expand who's even able to be able to use the product. And we've started looking more and more at the Vigs (32:32) Okay. Jon Fawcett (32:42) other disabilities that people may have to go along with it, this, that can cause challenges for them to wake up to alerts. So for instance, the deaf population that has to hear alerts or feel alerts, the phone alerts, especially the new, by, the new vibration haptics in phones is just more like a tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. That's not a lot of times enough to wake them up at all or even get their attention. Yeah. So we have the vibration. We have the vibration puck, which we've actually talked with some people that work with hearing impaired specifically about that. But we're also adding in the next software update, a visual alert option. So the entire screen. Vigs (33:13) Yeah. Really? Jon Fawcett (33:38) will flash as well for that. And in what's probably going to be the following update, we're working on one for the blind population that will speak their blood glucose number, the value, during an alert or if they hold down the button on top of SugarPixels. So they don't have to be able to even see it. They can hold the button down and it will speak their current reading to them. So we're... Vigs (33:53) Okay. Yeah. Jon Fawcett (34:08) I'm trying to look at sort of the full population that has a need for this more so than just my own family. My own family doesn't necessarily need some of these features, but I know that now that there's other families that do. Vigs (34:26) Yeah, I love that you're kind of integrating everything into this ecosystem and you're not kind of being like, what else can I sell to these people? But you're like, what are some of the other things these people need help with and how can I help them with that? I think that's very, very commendable. I guess to close off any, any challenges that you're facing right now, anything that, you know, maybe you want to brainstorm about or things that you're wondering what could, you know, the audience or anyone else listening to this, what could they help you with? Jon Fawcett (34:39) Thank you. Thank you. boy, that's a loaded question. I mean, every, every day is a challenge for something or another, whether it be, you know, trying to find a bug in the new software, your updates you're making or hardware delays. We, we had a delay of our board panels coming into our Ohio warehouse. And so we're scrambling to ship. units all over the world from Taiwan instead of having them here. There's, that the one thing that if, if any of your listeners want to reach out about, we are, and this is the, this is the first time I'm, telling this feature idea publicly. So, we had an idea for a feature that I think will be potentially game -changing for. especially people that use our product that live alone or college and young adult age children living on their own for the first time. And then they're moving away from their parents' house for the first time. And it's a way to manually trigger an alert at the other person's on another person's sugar pixels. So for instance, mom at home, sees that her kid who's at college has an emergency low blood sugar value. The kid's not answering their phone. Mom can hold down the button on top of her sugar pixel. And the sugar pixel a thousand miles away in the kid's college room will start alerting full volume everything without needing any other details. So we are. Vigs (36:32) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Jon Fawcett (36:52) We're pretty excited about that functionality, but it's so far our server side infrastructure is essentially just a CDN for some of like the update files and stuff like that. So it's just, it's file storage for like the firmware update files where the app is doing all the configuration directly over Bluetooth. So this, we've just started looking into. Vigs (37:04) Right, if you're using BLE on the app. Jon Fawcett (37:20) MQTT, WebSockets, et cetera, et cetera. And we're kind of not exactly sure which way is the best way to best approach to take with that. But that's an interesting new feature we have on the roadmap. It might be a little wild because it's our first time really building out a backend infrastructure to handle stuff from individual SugarPixels. Vigs (37:46) Yeah, especially because the phone app is doing everything right now. So you've been able to stay away from having the whole backend. But the feature that you're thinking about, which I think is a very critical feature, it creates a new means of alert, new means of communication that doesn't depend on cell phone or anything else. And having that backend also opens up a whole world of other possibilities, so many other things that you can do now. SugarPixels can talk to each other. Jon Fawcett (38:10) It, yeah, it really does. just having the ability to have something up in the cloud where they can go communicate through and with, I think is going to quickly expand some other feature ideas that we currently maybe didn't even think of because we don't have a server on it. Vigs (38:29) Yeah, yeah, the the sugar pixel so ESP 32 you're using the BLE Wi -Fi chip so you've got the Wi -Fi connection and stuff already, right? Okay, and Jon Fawcett (38:38) Yeah, and that's how the unit operates. So when they connect with the app over BLE, they just pick their home Wi -Fi network, type in the Wi -Fi password, and then the SugarPixel runs autonomously over their home Wi -Fi. Vigs (38:49) Yep. Yep. Okay, okay. Yeah, cool. Well, all the best to you with that. I really appreciate you sitting down with me and having this chat. It was super enlightening and I love that you've taught me a lot about this niche that I don't know nothing about. And it's great that you've seen success there. It's great that you've helped so many people. So, kudos to you, Jon, and good luck with everything. Jon Fawcett (39:08) Yeah. Thank you and thanks for having me. Vigs (39:17) Yeah.

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